S1E8 - Over The Garden Wall: Joy in the Rocky Woods

Hey y'all, we are back with a few episodes that have been sitting in the archive. We're getting ready to start recording new episodes, but we wanted to get these out there. These were also a bit of an experiment with new styles and new equipment, so there may be some glitches along the way, but we appreciate you joining us and hope you enjoy them.

Welcome back to Coolidge After Dark. I'm R.C. Beiler.

And I'm Jen Evans.

And we're joined today by 2 guests. We've got Phil.

That's my name.

And we've got Ashley.

I'm Ashley, yay!

And yeah, the 4 of us just got back from seeing Over the Garden Wall, provided by Coolidge Corner Theater, but done in, in another location in the Rocky Woods.

In the Rocky Woods by the trustees, all of the nature preserves, I believe, in Massachusetts.

Oh, okay. See, I knew nothing about the Rocky Woods. I was— I just knew we were going to the woods. And if I didn't know where we were going, I would have thought I was being taken to be killed.

Well, we went to the Medfield Woods, so that's very fair.

But yeah, we went to see Over the Garden Wall, which I had seen the entirety of previously. Had you, Jen?

Yeah, of course.

Phil, what about you? Have you seen Over the Garden Wall before this?

Yes.

And obviously I have.

Oh, obviously?

Yeah, our Halloween costumes were Greg and Wirt. Ashley and I.

I just like the idea that it's an obvious thing about you that—

It's obvious. Look at her.

Some people would just pick up about you.

Like first top 10 thing that you get when you look at her.

So yeah, but we all went in. It was our first time ever seeing it in a public venue.

Yes. I didn't say that.

Oh, where else have you seen it in a public venue, Phil?

A public movie theater.

For real?

I think so, yeah.

Oh, I didn't realize they, like, put it out for real.

I guess I would have expected that people put it out before. I didn't know that any of us had seen it. I've been bamboozled.

You have.

Wait, wait, am I being bamboozled right now in that you have not seen it before, or was I bamboozled in that you had seen it and I didn't know? I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, I lost track of that question, Arcee.

Basically, are you lying that you had seen it before in a theater before tonight?

I've seen it in a theater before tonight. Final answer.

Okay. For many of us, it was a new experience tonight.

Yes.

Let's move on to our next segment.

Which is Arcee guesses Rotten Tomatoes scores. So what do you think it was?

So the overall Rotten Tomatoes score for this series, I am gonna put it at 94%. Phil, do you wanna get in on this?

I agree completely.

And Ashley, I know, will refuse to guess on anything at all.

She knows the answer. She's looking at it with me.

All right, what was the answer?

Y'all are both wrong. There is no average score, but it has a popcorn meter and average tomato meter. There's nothing for the average tomato meter. It's a 98% on the average popcorn meter. Is that like a TV show versus movie thing?

I'm not certain. I've never— I guess I knew Rotten Tomatoes did the one score.

And I did a couple Googles. This is from Rotten Tomatoes, and really, yeah, there was no right.

I knew that they do a critical score and an audience score. I didn't realize maybe that's the name differentiation.

I feel popcorn meter. It is 98%.

All right, so it was higher than either way. It was higher than I had anticipated. I was expecting that it was like it's clearly well reviewed, but it's not like you know people love this though.

There are people that hate things, so I figured that would drag it a little bit. This is pretty beloved.

Trying to think. I think I might have seen it when it first aired in 2014. Nickelodeon Jesus on Cartoon Network. You think that would've been drilled into my head considering the Cartoon Network theme played at the end of every episode.

Yeah.

All right, well, you know what? I stand corrected, but that's great. I mean, I think it absolutely deserves that higher rating.

Yeah, I think so too. It's a good animated thing for people that don't normally like animated things.

Well, it's like thoughtful and dark and whimsical, but also there's lighthearted moments. And let's talk a little bit about the plot and the characters. Phil, who's your favorite character?

Uh, I like the young boy because he's Very funny.

So I assume we're meaning Greg then, the younger brother.

That's right.

Why are you treating this like you're on a quiz show?

I just want to get it right, sir.

All right, Ashley, who's your favorite character?

I, I struggle with this a lot because I really like all of the characters. Um, Miss Langtree, the teacher from the 2nd episode, I just love her because she's ridiculous and honestly her style is great. I do also really love Greg too because he's He's just a silly little guy and it's so fun and he won't give up hope and he's just wonderful and it's, it's great.

And Jen, what about you? Who's your favorite?

I see myself in Wirt so much.

Same.

Yeah. This is why we're friends.

I would really like you to elaborate on that, both of you.

Well, wait, wait, wait.

I want to say that I would, I see myself more in Wirt specifically in that if I was presented with a magical, a magical situation where there was much option for whimsy, I would respond with deadpan downer seriousness.

Yeah.

That's why I'm confused on how you see yourself in the same way.

'Cause he's sad and angsty.

And he struggles in high school.

And he would listen to Pierce the Veil.

I now want an edit of Wirt that someone makes where he's just got a bunch of tattoos and a side shave in the future.

And he's so sad.

He's just so sad. This thing is full of a lot of amazing characters, some that are very much one-offs for individual episodes. Like, I, I'm blanking on his name right now, but the giant pumpkin man.

Enoch.

Phil has done the graciousness of Googling and just— oh, I mean, that there already is a very—

Can you screenshot that and send it to me and we'll post it? Yeah, yeah, so everyone can see. It's like looking at myself.

This is how you see yourself in the mirror?

It is.

Amazing. But yeah, I mean, also like the Woodsman is a very intriguing character. Well, the Woodsman is like the antithesis almost to Greg in that Greg is like the most silly and whimsical character. And The Woodsman is like, if you removed the boys from it, it was just a woodsman show, it would be like the darkest, heaviest, my daughter's soul is trapped in a lantern story.

Yeah.

Or so we think.

Well, sorry. Yeah, you're right. That's his arc, right?

Spoiler.

Let's talk about the plot a little bit. Like, you know, it is extremely, to me, toes the line between very episodic, but also a very clear like narrative through point. Like I think if you watch any one episode, you've got a pretty full story.

Yeah.

At the same time, there's a very clear, like I said, tracking through line from it.

But like overall, do you think the boys are having this like lucid pre-death dream because they're drowning? I think I see it that way.

Oh sure, sure. Well, it's something I'd forgotten is that he just wakes up there. He doesn't like— he's already under— I guess what I mean by this is that he's underwater.

They're like drowning in a cold, cold river.

Yeah, because if it was meant to be a more literal thing, it's difficult because we do get that flash flash at the end to like back to Over the Garden Wall and we see the results of, of their actions. But at the same time, like, there's nothing connecting the two. It's not like— because I think, uh, he says like goodbye to, uh, Beatrice, uh, and then wakes up underwater. There's no like him falling in a pool in the Garden Wall world and waking up in the water, you know?

Like— Right, because he did, but they save him before he wakes up in real life, so it's kind of confusing there. Remember the fish fishes him out?

Right, right.

No, no, no, but that was earlier on.

Right.

At the, at the end, after they, you know, they leave the Woodsman and the Beast.

Right, those 2 worlds don't break at the same time.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's, that's the reason that leads me more to the lucid dream thing. But then there's the, uh, the, like I said, the factor that, uh, we get the flash towards the end that shows results beyond what their, their experience there.

Yeah.

What do you think about it, Phil?

I think it's hard when you— your parents get divorced and you have a younger sibling that you resent and you don't know how to talk to girls. And I really appreciate that the show goes to pains to show that despite him thinking that everybody fucking hates him, everybody's like so nice to him and it's just like, oh my god, you're here, like, thank god. I think that's nice.

All that's true and very thoughtful and poignant. But my question was more specifically about the cross between if they experienced an actual thing or if it was a lucid dying dream.

I see.

I'll let Phil think on that and I'll kind of give my take. I think what is interesting to remember is that the real intro and ending of this is narration by Frog. So really, if you think about it, this whole thing is a story that is being told in a beautiful song by a frog with a fantastic voice that very much deserves his record contract. And I think that that's a really interesting way to think about it. Is it a story within a story within a story?

Do you think the frog told the whole story, made it all up himself?

So I was also— does that mean that the boys weren't real? Maybe that they were just fiction created by the frog.

That is definitely not what I was trying to say or imply.

Nope, that's what she was trying to say and imply. 100%.

Is the frog's real name Jason Thunderburger?

These sound like rock facts to me. I don't know.

Was there never a Jason Thunderburger?

It was only a frog named Jason Thunderburger.

Yes.

Yeah, I mean, I think to go back to Phil's point though, it's very evident when you go back is that despite all of Wirt's anxiety, he is like a— like, you know, maybe not popular, but he is a like Noted, accepted, liked part of his group. Like he's not invited to that party, but he shows up and everyone's like, "Oh hey, Wirt!" Like no one's angry at him. There's not like you know any clearly like a sign of like, "Oh, this guy's here." I don't even think they meant to not invite him.

I feel like he either wasn't around or no one was really invited to this party. Right. Like I don't think he was maliciously not invited.

No, no, definitely, definitely not. I I guess that's what I'm saying too is that because they kind of brush off Jason Funderburker more than they brush off.

They don't really brush off Wirt.

You know, it occurred to me the last time I watched this, I have no idea why, but I really thought it was— the party was at Jason Thunderburger's house.

The way they talk about it, that makes sense, because we don't even know whose house it was at.

Exactly.

It's just a party.

At least I don't think they mentioned it.

I don't think so.

Looking at Wirt's life, you can definitely draw a parallel with like what it is like to be a very anxious person, mental health, mental illness, where you assume people are upset with you and they're not.

Yeah, super interesting take for like a probably generally aimed younger show, but that makes it inclusive to everyone. Yeah. Which is really cool.

I think that's what, I mean, when we look at the audience of, of who went out tonight, it was definitely all older.

I don't think I saw—

I didn't see any kids.

Yeah, I don't think I saw any kids.

And again, kids can't drive, so.

Good point.

I mean, I was, guess I was expecting that maybe some parents would bring their children.

Yeah, we didn't see anyone though.

Yeah, I, I'm trying to think. I don't think I saw any at all.

And I think it's interesting for us because we were all adults when this came out, so it's not like, we had the experience of watching this as a kid. I think I fully agree that, you know, it aired on Cartoon Network, it was definitely aimed towards kids, but the fact that an entire generation of adults and young adults have really latched onto this and just really love this story tells you a lot. I think it's one of those— the best children's stories are stories that can be enjoyed by any age group. And I think that's something that this very successfully does, as illustrated, like you said, by the fact that I don't think I saw any kids there either.

Yeah.

It was really— all adults and it was, you know.

There are shows on Cartoon Network that are not meant for kids. Like, you know, they've had like teenage-oriented and—

Sure.

And, and, you know, Adult Swim obviously exists.

Right. But even like Adventure Time.

This is very, very Adventure Time adjacent.

Very, yes. I feel like this was born out of like Adventure Time success.

I think Adventure Time came around the same time or after.

Earlier.

Was it really?

Yep, it was when I was late in high school. This came out in 2014.

Yeah, yeah, I knew this came out in 2014. I guess I just thought Adventure Time came out later.

I never watched it, Oh wow, I'm surprised. Yeah, I watched a lot of it.

I mean, sorry, let me rephrase that. I've seen like a couple episodes, but I never got into it.

Yeah, yeah, I watched a lot of it as a teenager, and like I never really did the animated thing.

How old were you when you saw it?

Like 16, 17, 18.

I would have been in college by that point.

Fair. But you did the animated thing though.

Yeah, no, I know, I'm just saying. But like that might be a factor as to why is that maybe just people around me were not other interests, you know?

Yeah, you were too cool.

Yeah, yeah, we were doing drugs and having sex.

Wow.

Neither of those things were true.

Let's talk a little bit about the casting.

Elijah Wood was Wirt.

Yes, Elijah Wood.

Fantastic. I don't know if anyone else could have played that character that way.

He does such a good voice, like I forgot entirely that it was him.

But then when you think about it, you're like, of course it's him. Melanie Lynskey was, um, Beatrice. Beatrice.

I remembered that about— so her voice by comparison was much more akin to what I normally hear her speak like.

Yes, but also she like puts it on and she has an Australian accent normally.

Oh, I forgot about that. So then that's the American accent that she always does.

And she's like a little bit different in everything she's in. So it doesn't quite like—

well, my comparison was very specifically Yellowjackets.

The mom.

Yeah, she plays the mom on Yellowjackets. And Elijah Wood's also in that because I remember seeing—

oh, that's right.

I remember seeing a thing because there's an episode where they do stuff together and people were like, Over the Garden Wall reunion.

That's so funny.

In terms of the other cast, who is Greg? Greg is Colin Dean and a child.

Like an actual child?

Probably an adult.

He's 20 now. He was born in 2005, so he would have been 9.

Oh, that's so cute.

So he was like an actual child.

Yeah.

I think the Tea Baron man and Adelaide are both John Cleese, right?

Let me take a look.

Yeah, you're correct.

John Cleese played Endicott and Adelaide. Yeah.

I'm looking at this too. And I did not realize that Auntie Whispers is Tim Curry, and that's amazing. That's absolutely— I mean, I can— I totally recognize it now, but I did not know that before right now. That's amazing.

It's a distortion though from like, again, like a very good sign of acting capability of like, that's not how he normally sounds.

No, that's funny that he would sign on to that too.

The Frog was played by Jack Jones, who's the singer who I'm not familiar with his work.

Okay.

The Beast is Samuel Raimi. Yeah, absolutely great voice. I'm trying to see.

Well, Christopher Lloyd as the Woodsman.

I just said yes.

Fantastic. Of course, great, great choice for that.

He sounds like he does, like, as Doc Brown and whatnot, but he also— but with a little bit of an exaggeration too.

I never would have picked that up though.

Yeah, I mean, were you also a big Back to the Future fan though?

No, I've never seen it.

Wow.

Coolidge Corner.

Oh, and Thomas Lennon was Jimmy Brown for the Reno 911 and such adjacent fans.

Wow, I haven't thought about him in a minute.

Who played teacher opposite him?

Miss Langtree, it looks like, was Janet Klein, who I'm not familiar with. One of the Cloud City reception committee was Jenna Ortega. Oh!

She was actually very young.

Yeah, she would have been young before that was—

She would have been in an early role.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

I'll say, a lot of the other actors, they have Their own articles on Wikipedia, but they're people I'm not familiar with.

Yeah, looking through their list, no one's jumping out.

But there was like some serious star power, and everyone did a great job. Christopher Joseph Isaac, who played Enoch. Oh, uh, he's been in a bunch of David— he was in a bunch of David Lynch pictures as well as, uh, as well as apparently DeRockaville, which is interesting. He was in Silence of the Lambs as well. Oh, anyway, I can't think of any character in this where they come off as an actor. They— all of the people in this do a great job of like creating a compelling character believable within the world they provided.

I agree. And I, I totally agree with what Jen said where I think the first couple— it took me a couple of times of watching it and like looking into it to be like, oh my gosh, of course that's Elijah Wood. Like, he just— he fits the character so well, and the voice that he does and the way he reads, it's just so well done that again, the second you know, it's super, super obvious. But I think that all of the characters are very well done to the point where it doesn't take you out of that and being like, oh, I'm listening to this actor right now. Where I feel like sometimes the big star power animated voices, it almost does take you out of it because you're thinking about the actor instead of the character. And I think everyone in this does a really good job of making you think about the characters. It doesn't take you out of it in that way.

Yeah. Even as I say, the people that I would consider the major star power, Christopher Lloyd and Tim Curry, they are doing a unique take on their voice so much that you don't recognize that it's them for the most part. Yeah, I just think that gives it— gives an example of them. This is not someone that was just cast because they are famous. It wasn't like, oh, this is someone that's going to give us publicity, or just because of a name. Like, they felt they were a good fit for what they were doing. Because I don't think— I could be completely wrong, but I don't think, for instance, Christopher Lloyd has done much voice acting work. I don't think that's—

I don't think so. Usually he's like a real actor.

Everything I've ever seen him in otherwise, like Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Back to the Future, a couple other things have all been in-person roles.

And usually very different characters than the Woodsman.

Yeah. Uh, he was a very interesting character in the movie I Am Not a Serial Killer.

I've never heard of it.

Was he a serial killer?

I'm not gonna elaborate. Good film based off a not-so-great book series.

Oh, okay.

I liked it because I like things that aren't always so great.

I want to sidebar, quick observation that just struck me about Mr. Elijah Wood. He seems to always play a character experiencing the hero's journey.

Because he's a hero.

He is a hero. But Lord of the Rings, this, everything is illuminated. I know other ones he's like played this type of character, but he always seems to kind of do this, this like hero's journey situation.

It's funny because the immediate other film that I consider him for is he's a psychopath.

There's a couple. Yeah, he's a real fucking weirdo.

I think Sin City is specifically what comes to mind.

He's in Sin City? I've never seen it.

He has no speaking lines.

Oh shit, we'll have to watch that.

It's very good. Um, I don't know if it's your kind of film, if I'm being honest, but I'd watch it with you.

Why do you think I wouldn't like it?

It's based off what I would consider the most boy comic book series ever.

You forget that I'm a 17-year-old boy at heart.

All right, I'm willing to stand corrected.

We'll see.

All right, well, since we talked a bit about the film and the cast, let's talk a little bit about though our experience going to this production, uh, put on by Coolidge Corner Theatre. Because this is our first time ever seeing something that was not at the theater proper.

Yeah, our first offsite visit.

We should have brought chairs.

I thought it was really cool to see this specifically where we did because again, it's fall in New England right now. The leaves are turning. We were crunching on them on our walk over from where we had to park. Being able to look up at the stars at the couple of parts in the show that have stars was so cool. And it was a little cold and it was, you had all of the smells of the wood. I feel like it almost made it feel like an immersive experience. Like, it was just— it would have been cool to see it at the theater, I'm sure, but I really liked just sitting out in the woods watching the story about 2 kids lost in the woods. It felt so thematically perfect, and I thought it was a really, really fun way to do it. Again, it just— it felt like fall, and I loved that.

Yeah, I agree. It was cool at certain points where they were like walking through the woods. It's almost like the screen just kind of bled into the regular woods. And I definitely just like laid down and looked up at the stars and it was crazy cool. They were bright tonight. Yeah, we should have brought in chairs. I agree with that though. I was struggling. Too old to sit on the ground for that long.

Yeah, my ankles were really starting to feel it by the end because I would, I could have, I kept crossing my legs because there just was not quite enough room for me to stretch out.

Yeah.

There was a couple of times where I really thought about laying back and just like sitting, laying on the ground, but I was like, no, someone's going to stumble and step on me in the dark.

Oh, I did that. And I was like, if it happens, it happens. We brought our big 10-foot by 10-foot blanket though. That was great.

Not sponsored by Big Blanket Company.

Yet.

Unless they want to.

Mm.

Hit us up at the business email.

That we don't have.

Yet.

Yet. I mean, Phil, I was gonna say, had you ever been to the Rocky Woods before?

No, very scary.

Were you actually, were you actually nervous being in the woods? Are you not an outdoorsy person?

No, I love the woods.

So you lied about it being scary? No, I mean legitimately, what did you think about a movie experience being out in the woods? Because I've been to like a drive-in before, but I don't think I've really ever done a movie outside.

Yeah, I thought it was neat. I mean, um, I hadn't done anything like that in quite a while. I, I kind of missed the— I remember early pandemic, a lot of places, a lot of like drive-ins were sort of popping up and people were doing that. And this kind of, uh, this kind of felt like an opportunity to do something like that again.

Yeah, yeah, we've never done a drive-in together.

No, no.

They're classic. I haven't done them since I was in high school.

I was gonna say, I think I've only done it once in my life.

We used to go quite a bit. There was like one nearby and it was really fun.

Up in New Hampshire?

Yep, yep.

Is there any that you're aware of around here?

There are. Uh, Calhoun has been doing drive-in movies recently. Yeah, they've been doing Halloween ones this, this whole month.

But is that something they've always done or is that new?

No, I think it's a new thing, but I'm not entirely sure. But I do think it's newer, so we'll see. I'd love the Coolidge Corner-Calhoun collab. That would be prime. Mark, can you make that happen?

We'll appeal to Mark directly on the show.

Mark Anastasio, can you please make that happen?

Why do I feel like he's not like the person who's in charge of like searching?

I don't know. They just did the ship in Salem collab. There was like an old ship and they did a movie. They did one of the ghost ship movies or something.

My bigger point was I don't know if he'll see this particular appeal.

Oh, we'll tag you. We'll tag you.

I would be interested to go try another one of these, like if they do another collaboration outside of the actual theater. That being said, I think we have— I'm glad we went to this now.

Yes.

Because if this was like a week later, I think—

Too cold.

The temperatures are dropping. Like, I, I expectedly layered up because I knew it was going to be cold tonight. But I was still a little like, again, maybe it would have been different if we would have had like maybe another extra blanket or chairs.

Chairs.

A more comfortable experience may have distracted me from the cold a bit more.

I mean, I could see my breath. I was like, oh my God, it's really cold.

I would put my hand on the ground and I would hit a rock. Broke me out of the movie experience for a moment. Probably made me more susceptible to thinking about how cold it was.

Yeah, but it was still really fun. No, no, it was fine. I really liked that.

Yeah.

And it made the cold parts of the movie really immersive.

I also think you guys are just kind of weak and get cold easily because I was— I mean, it wasn't warm, but like, I thought it was a fun part of it. I was fine.

Okay, you're fired. Get off my podcast.

But I love the experience. If they— I'm not even saying like if they do another one this season, I may still go. I'm just going to prepare accordingly to make it a better experience for myself.

I think we're set up to do a lot more next summer is what's happening.

So let's go around to think final thoughts on, on the experience of watching this in an outdoor area and specifically in the Rocky Woods.

I absolutely loved it. I thought it was really nice. Normally I watch this a lot earlier in the season, because it is one of those things that, you know, fall's coming around and I'm gonna go ahead and watch it. And this kind of kept me from watching it earlier. I wanted this to be my first experience of this this year, and I'm really glad I did it. I think it was a really cool way to do it. It's a really cool way to make me just like, it feels like fall now, and I love that.

I think we all have periods in our life where we feel really alienated. Things like the careless joy of a half-sibling It can feel like a slap in the face. You feel like you don't know how to get the things you want. You're ashamed of the things you have. And going through a difficult time and coming out the other side and realizing everyone's actually kind of got your back and things are okay, that's important. And I think that's why everyone can relate to this TV show.

Damn, poignant. Jen, final thoughts?

Um, it was so fun. It felt like fall. It was— I know I've been traveling a lot, so I haven't been in the fall weather, but we are experiencing climate change because that's a real thing. So this, this felt like the first, like, fall night. So that was super fun. I think it was the perfect place for it. Everyone was really into it. It was super cute.

I, I had a fantastic time. I look forward to our next event going to Coolidge Corner Theater. Yeah, or in the Rocky Woods. We'll see.

I'll go anywhere Mark Anastasio sets the thing up.

I do know what our next film will be.

We can kind of give a little spoiler for the cast.

We're gonna go to their midnight showing of Halloween on Halloween.

Yeah, I haven't seen Halloween before.

Yeah, yeah, it's all new for you.

And we're gonna do it in costume and everyone's gonna be in costume and it's gonna be so fun.

Oh.

What do you mean, oh? Are you not wearing a costume to the movie?

I was gonna change out of my costume.

Are you fucking kidding me? They're not gonna let us in.

Mark, you have to let us in.

No, Mark!

Bully him!

Fine, I guess I have to wear my costume.

We will be there in costume. See you there.

Well, I think that's all we have to say for Coolidge After Dark. I'm RC Beiler.

And fresh from the Rocky Woods, I'm Jen Evans.

I'm Phil.

And I'm Ashley.

Keep it Coolidge, everyone.